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Re: [leafnode-list] Skipped messages with multiple news feeds

To: leafnode-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [leafnode-list] Skipped messages with multiple news feeds
From: Grahame Cooper <Grahame@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 09:56:16 +0000
Cc: nntptrial-feedback@xxxxxxxx
In-reply-to: <3E733D10.BeroList-2.5.9@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de>
Original-message-id: <3E744A40.1050106@JandG-Cooper.com>
Reply-to: leafnode-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030210

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mathias,

I have found the source of the problem for sure now. Below are headers
from two messages on the ntl server:

====================================================================
Path: newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net!news1-win.server.ntlworld.com!newsp<snip>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.photos.nude-art
Subject: Acme Scans - Horst P Horst - AS-HPHx7.jpg (1/1)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:19:07 -0000
Organization: m & N Incorporated.
Message-ID: <v76v5b98h41i07@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sender: nightowl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-News-Agent: The Nightowl Express
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Lines: 879
Xref: newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net alt.binaries.photos.nude-art:239090
X-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 00:44:22 GMT
(newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net)


begin 644 AS-HPHx7.jpg
====================================================================

====================================================================
begin 644 AS-HPHx7.jpg
Path:
newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net!news1-win.server.ntlworld.com!newspeer<snip>
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:36:17 -0600
From: "Nightowl." <nightowl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.photos.nude-art
References: <v75jdun89skm63@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<SQGca.3195664$zx5.484442@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: yoyo ma_00 Fills 4 U PL-IX001.JPG (0/1)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:39:12 -0600
Organization: m & N Incorporated.
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Message-ID: <QMmdndL5guosHe6jXTWcpw@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Lines: 58
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.86.45.134
X-Trace:
sv3-RiieA8njKHZFrj3fSeaxHa8+rSo85LOxI8qqvfg+S+ep3sV0LCWOfeHyWLgfwPuGP3RhE/vbQpgk/bp!3ED8FiVAdfsQHTAqp+WfKxEHEt5qgpxNhNcHVTEVf2Ep+6nZNa9DR88PEAvn
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xxxxxxxxxxx
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@xxxxxxxxxxx
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your
complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.1
Xref: newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net alt.binaries.photos.nude-art:239100
X-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:36:19 GMT
(newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net)

Hi Erin
====================================================================

As you can see, the serial numbers of the messages are 239090 for the
first one and 239100 for the second one. However, the second one is
shown as received 5 hours earlier than the first. The problem seems to
be with the distribution of messages to the various servers and caches
within the NTL network. It appears that the serial number is allocated
by newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net, then the messages are subsequently
transferred to newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net in a different order,
apparently in relation to message size.

An added complication is that NTL use a DNS round-robin approach for
load balancing on their news servers, so it is pure luck which server
you get. Although I did notice that the received times for the same
message on newsfep1 and newsfep2 were identical.

Leafnode successfully downloaded message 239100 at Mar 15 19:45:10, but
the messages 239027 - 239099 were not there at that time. The relevant
standard log entry and debug log entry are shown below:

====================================================================
Mar 15 19:45:10 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]: clamping maxage for
alt.binaries.photos.nude-art to groupexpire 3
Mar 15 19:45:10 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]:
alt.binaries.photos.nude-art: considering articles 239027 - 239100
Mar 15 19:45:10 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]:
alt.binaries.photos.nude-art: 1 articles fetched (to 19603), 0 killed
Mar 15 19:45:12 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]: wrote active file with
32340 lines
====================================================================

====================================================================
Mar 15 19:45:10 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]: >GROUP
alt.binaries.photos.nude-art
Mar 15 19:45:10 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]: <211 348 238546 239100
alt.binaries.photos.nude-art
Mar 15 19:45:10 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]: >XOVER 239027-239100
Mar 15 19:45:10 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]: <224 Overview information
follows
Mar 15 19:45:10 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]: >ARTICLE 239100
Mar 15 19:45:10 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]: <220 239100
<QMmdndL5guosHe6jXTWcpw@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Mar 15 19:45:10 cooper-linux fetchnews[10387]: >QUIT
Mar 15 19:45:12 cooper-linux fetchnews[10388]: Process forked.
Mar 15 19:45:12 cooper-linux fetchnews[10388]: reading XOVER info from
/var/spool/news/ntl/discussion/broadband/stb/1305
Mar 15 19:45:12 cooper-linux fetchnews[10388]: reading XOVER info from
/var/spool/news/ntl/discussion/broadband/stb/1306
Mar 15 19:45:12 cooper-linux fetchnews[10388]: updated 2 lines in
/var/spool/news/ntl/discussion/broadband/stb/.overview
Mar 15 19:45:12 cooper-linux fetchnews[10388]: wrote
/var/spool/news/ntl/discussion/broadband/stb/.overview
Mar 15 19:45:13 cooper-linux fetchnews[10388]: reading XOVER info from
/var/spool/news/alt/binaries/photos/nude-art/19603
Mar 15 19:45:13 cooper-linux fetchnews[10388]: updated 1 lines in
/var/spool/news/alt/binaries/photos/nude-art/.overview
Mar 15 19:45:13 cooper-linux fetchnews[10388]: wrote
/var/spool/news/alt/binaries/photos/nude-art/.overview
Mar 15 19:45:13 cooper-linux fetchnews[10388]: Process done.
====================================================================

I don't think there is anything leafnode can do about this. It is NTL's
problem to sort out because messages should appear on the server in the
correct order of serial number.

I have copied this to the NTL address listed by the news cache server.
Thanks again for the help.

Cheers,

Grahame
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Follow-Ups:
- Re: [leafnode-list] Skipped messages with multiple news feeds
  - From: Matthias Andree

References:
- Re: [leafnode-list] Skipped messages with multiple news feeds
  - From: Grahame Cooper

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