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Re: [leafnode-list] Moderated postings

On Thursday 07 October 2004 15:25, Matthias Andree wrote:
> Bernd Felsche <bernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

> > I'm slightly familiar with the problem because we've recently
> > established an NNTP server "behind" a list server for a Linux User
> > Group with newsgroups reflecting the various lists as local groups.
> > Articles "posted" are having to be filtered due to possible
> > cross-posting (another can of worms if they're moderated).

> It's simple: if ONE of the destination groups is moderated, the

> posting is sent to the moderator of the leftmost moderated group
> in the the Newsgroups: header, who can then approve (and
> crosspost) or reject the posting - or, with multiple moderated
> groups, forwards it to the moderator of the next moderated group
> to the right of his own, in the Newsgroups: header.

> Multiple moderated cross-posted groups aren't supported too well.

That's always been a problem with moderated newsgroups. Even before
leafnode. Manual handling made that problem mostly invisible, unless
you were a moderator!

> > The "major" stumbling block is that leafnode won't accept postings
> > from "bogus domains", yet the mailing list software does (it
> > shouldn't, but it's seen as being leafnode's fault that it doesn't
> > accept bogus domains). We're working on the mailing list front-end
> > re-writing bogus Message-ID
> To wreak havoc, with duplicates and all that Jim has just reported.
> Don't - reject the mail instead.

Ideally, that is the preferred solution.

In this case, because the mailing list receives emails from novice
users asking how the heck they configure their new Linux setup, and
the restricted realm in which the articles/newsgroups are visible,
tend to make us adopt the pragmatic solution.

> I can split out a quick mail filter that applies the same rules to
> the Message-ID as leafnode if that is desired.

I know the code... it's been triggered several times in the space of
a week or so...

> Replacing the Message-ID, however bogus it was, is likely to create a
> lot more problems than it solves, starting with broken threading, over
> duplicates to other issues I don't know off-hand, there are sure to be
> some.

It's because of broken threading, and the fact that the mailing list
front-end accepted the bogus MID int the first place (!!) and
already contains duplicates (@localhost) as a consequence. When the
front-end produces its own MID in response to a bogus one, it allows
that article to be threaded correctly for everybody; except the
original offender if they don't use what the list returns or the
leafnode view of the mailing list.

Worthy of note is that nobody outside of the subscriber community
is fed the articles. If they do cross-post to newsgroups outside
the realm, they'll never appear there because of lack of moderator

I have also suggested to the mailing list operator that an
"edu-gram" be sent to the originators of articles with bogus MID,
alerting them to the fact of their mis-configured system and that
their old-MID is now a non-bogus MID. If they've been previously
unaware of the situation, then this should induce corrective action.
Especially if they keep submitting articles with bogus MID.

> > if they're obviously bogus as it has the
> > potential to destroy threaded views in email as well; as well as
> > "collisions" with existing articles in leafnode.
> Bogus Message-IDs in mail are usually the result of an incomplete
> configuration of the hosts that runs the mailer or newsreader.

Yes. So how should a mailing list, serving Linux newbies sometimes
requesting configuration assistance, handle emails with bogus MID?

> > Number 3 is one significant point. If the moderator never approves,
> > doesn't the "posted" article remains in out.going forever?
> See above.
> As long as leafnode is aware that the group is moderated, it will try to
> post once, on only one server, and then remove the article from
> out.going, ll. 1769ff. in fetchnews.c as of the current 20041006a
> snapshot.

Thanks... The unlink wasn't exactly obvious.

/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
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